Jordan Caron was a “basic sports bro”, watching a lot of sports, playing golf, and drinking a lot of beer. However, the end of his relationship made him face some of his challenges head-on.
This episode highlights how Jordan started his transition from being an average joe to learning about himself, his addictions (gambling, porn, and alcohol), his emotions, and more. He had to learn how to be more expressive and get into self-care.
There is nobody that I have seen grow more than Jordan and so we are so excited to have him on the https://mensgroup.com podcast.
This is the men’s group podcast. I’m your host Sean Galla. guys want to overcome challenges and improve parts of their lives for themselves and for their loved ones but guys don’t have access to supportive conversations or healthy male role models so we interview leading men who have overcome their challenges in healthy ways so that guys can learn healthy ways of thinking feeling and behaving most of what we talk about is just everyday nuts and bolts guy stuff so if you benefit from these conversations you can check out our free self-improvement community or our free online men’s groups over at mensgroup.com.
Now let’s talk about some guy stuff today at men’s group we have Jordan Caron I’ve known Jordan for 18 years he’s in my personal men’s group and he’s become one of my closest friends I wanted Jordan to be the first guest on the men’s group podcast because he’s overcome so many personal challenges and grown so much over the last few years.
His persistence with regards to overcoming his challenges and living in healthier ways has been so inspiring for me and all the guys in our men’s group he really has gone from being a basic bro to being a really happy healthy successful guy what I love about Jordan’s story is how relatable it is for most guys as a former professional golfer Jordan spent much of his time watching sports drinking beers with the guys shooting the breeze about nothing and indulging in his addictions like sports, gambling, porn and drinking he was unable to express his emotions and he wasn’t pursuing his passions of djing and producing dance music and just felt blah it wasn’t until his relationship ended that he realized that he needed to make some changes. So he started to address his health his addictions which led to deeper work he ended up changing his social circle and a lot more in this episode we primarily focus on what it was like to break out of his old way of living how he was able to shake off his unhealthy habits and begin to live a more productive healthy meaningful life we also get into his addictions and what caused them including the emotions from the early passing of his father and brother again if you want access to more of these kinds of conversations go over and check out mensgroup.com let’s start this again sorry first podcast intro and I already botched it your worst this is gonna be like me where I [ __ ] have like 20 takes of like a five minute thing that always happens to me too yeah so you were golf bro and and you were hanging around the golf club a lot yeah and you were going to the pub in the bar with the guys you know to have drinks after work talking about whatever guys talk about in the scenarios of sports and boobs and beer yeah um you’re wrestling with your addictions you’re just kind of like uh at that point you were kind of just a basic bro like like a sports guy right yeah why why do you think you ended up being that way why were you drawn to that why did you think that you know watching sports and betting on sports and hanging around with guys that are doing that is the way to be well I think it was just my upbringing you know and it’s no nothing against my parents you know it’s just that my dad got me into sports and it wasn’t even really him he was just he’d play sports and I saw that I was like yeah I want to I want to play sports and it started with baseball and then you know turned into golf um and then we’d watch sports together and next thing you know I’m playing basketball too and I’m playing all these sports and then you’re surrounding yourself with those guys and yeah you just for me it was the natural path I didn’t know any other way especially for me like I wanted to be a big famous golfer and I wanted to play on the pga tour and travel around and I got somewhat close but that was just that was all I knew I didn’t have any other idea that there was something else out there so it wasn’t you know one thing well I mean yeah I guess it was just the way that I was you know liking those things as a kid and never once questioned it and then never once questioned who I was hanging around with and how that could have effects on me so yeah that’s how it came to be yeah what was it like hanging out in those environments you said everybody’s all rah-rah projecting this image of we’re all having a good time where you know we’re confident we’re feeling good about ourselves but uh and so what was the image that you were trying to project there to to keep up with that and what were you actually feeling on the inside well I mean when you get together with a big group it’s always like there’s a lot of energy you know and and excitement and a lot of laughter and you know it was good vibes for the most part in terms of positivity of like you know having a good time but you know actually looking at it and like for me alcohol was a was a big part of that and for everybody else and it’s a to me I have different views on alcohol now but alcohol is definitely or I was using it to curb and suppress anxiety about being in social situations and also you know depression it was definitely um a tool for me to to not handle my depression and sit with it and cover it up um so when in those environments just there’s a lot of big energy you know you have your alpha males you know those are ones to be kind of leading the conversations or the jokes and you know having talks and it just for the most part was difficult to yeah to kind of take a look back and go yeah this isn’t quite healthy um but once when you’re in there it’s it’s there’s definitely this this mentality that like everything’s great and everything’s grand and you know I think at the end of the day a lot of it is just like drinking away your problems yeah I think a lot of guys can relate to that myself included yeah going through a phase like that too um and so you’re going out with the guys and you’re you know you’re working a job and you’re not really thinking much about who you want to become or you know why you’re doing what you’re doing and and you know I’ve talked about before how a part of part of that time for you was also being like not very expressive right you were you were kind of felt emotionally numbed out um you had a hard time expressing what you were feeling and and and expressing yourself in general you felt kind of flat tell us about that yeah and I at the time I didn’t know what it was from but I was definitely numbing myself down I was numbing myself down to the addictions um I know you want to talk about that at another point in time but like alcohol pornography and gambling were all ways for me to numb down I had lost my brother and my father within three years when I was in my early 20s and not expecting something like that to happen and hit me so close I didn’t know how to handle it and I turned to those things my three-headed monster I’m calling to to escape the feelings of sadness and depression and anxiety um and it’s yeah it was a struggle to even identify that I had issues you know I’ve talked about it a lot recently with some friends whether it’s a somatic breath work practitioner that I work with or other friends like I remember being like an eight-year-old kid like having uncontrollable fits of laughing and like getting to that point where like you know you hold it together and then you think you got it for a couple seconds and then you just start laughing like uncontrollably I guess I know and I missed that and I think what happened was like I started to control those things because I was like worried about being like oh this is an uncomfortable situation this is an awkward thing I need to control it and I’ve learned to control it or even those uh bouts of crying you know I remember playing baseball as a kid I whenever I’d strike out I’d start crying and I was like you know because I was like so emotionally attached to to the game and to succeed and then and but over the years that stuff just went away and I think it kind of happened around 12 13 14 when it wasn’t anybody who said anything to me but I guess I just had this perception that I had to man up and keep those emotions close especially when I was playing golf a big part of the way that I modeled myself to play golf was after another golfer who showed very little emotion whether good or bad on the golf course so I think that started the programming of this like numbing keeping things in don’t show your cards and that just took off when I started to turn to the addictions even more man I love how you talked about that and even the idea of checking your smile I’ve seen my dad do that my dad does that a lot he’ll like he’ll like laugh about something and then he’ll like check it like oh no feeling too much having too much fun or you know life’s like you’re not supposed to feel that good I don’t know exactly what it is but I’ve noticed a lot of people doing it since I’ve become aware of that yeah yeah it’s interesting yeah and I like I just picked up on it recently I’m like oh man I used to always do that but I think I started to control it because I wanted to like not be out of control with that emotion but it’s just yeah it was so much fun as a kid doing that actually trying to tap into that again well it’s been so inspiring to see you do that because like knowing you for 18 years yeah you were kind of a flat guy you’re kind of just always monotone and kind of even keel and now you know in our men’s group or when we hang out you’re like cracking jokes and razzing guys and but in like a real authentic way you really are stepping into who you are and part of that’s you feel more comfortable to express that part of you which is great you know um so tell me about the guys more about more about the people you’re hanging out with during that time too and like you know I would describe you probably as a popular guy you’re a golf pro so you’re like automatically one of the excuse the term but one of the big swinging decks of the golf course because you’re like you’re like you’re like the guy you’re like you’re you’re the guy that ever looks up to in that environment so you have no shortage of friends or people to hang out or have a beer with right but like how are those guys negatively influencing your um experience as a man or growth as a man you know without you even noticing it at that at that time looking back now well I mean based on who I was as a kid I was very social you know and I i hate the popularity thing but yeah playing sports and I was good at most sports that I played you definitely have that like oh you’re popular but at the same time you know there’s kids who are definitely very quiet and closed off I didn’t have that problem um and then obviously going into the golf industry after I wasn’t gonna be able to play on the pga tour started working at a golf course and um part of that job is like customer service and socializing and then I integrated myself into the club quite well and started hanging out with some older men and there were some good influences that were older but I switched and started playing with a group of guys who are around my age and I’m not bashing them at all or bad talking them again you know a few good seeds and each one’s got their things that I love about them but there’s definitely some stuff that I believe that they need to work on um but yeah it’s it was definitely hindering me trying to tap into this again and to try to express some emotion that sadness that depression that anxiety you know and not having enough conversations and not having a circle to share stuff that I was ashamed of admitting definitely didn’t help yeah opening up my heart again and being okay with the fact that I was imperfect and we’re on it perfect and it seems like a simple thing but like they they would always be like hey come have a drink or hey they would always be interested in doing things that are based in distraction it seems like right oh yeah 100 yeah definitely and you know every once in a while it brings something up to a few of the guys and they’d have the support or vice versa I would try to pry into someone a little bit more to talk about you know hey like you lost your mom when you were six years old like how’s that [ __ ] what was that like yeah yeah and you know to get an answer not surprisingly like yeah like me and my family don’t talk about it it’s just like you know I’m kind of the same way but like you know maybe you know it’s not a good thing and they’d be like oh yeah like I know like I need to work on this stuff but like often or not they’re they’re probably not so no yeah but definitely uh alcohol distraction bad advice yeah and you know and and with through other close friends too I got terrible advice especially relating to relationships and truth and honesty and I just looked at their relationships and saw that they were succeeding and I got some again some really bad advice from people who had been in a marriage for five or ten years and I’m like okay maybe I need to stop looking outwards for advice and start looking inwards and trusting this guy mm-hmm yeah and you actually got some bad advice though that contributed to the demise of that relationship you don’t have to share the details of it yeah uh no but um you know it’s uh looking back would you say that those guys were having a bigger much bigger negative impact on you uh your well-being than you and recognized at the time yeah probably you know I’m not I’m not bashing or bad talking you know there was a lot of great uh moments and and times with that but they were great for that period of your life it sounds like you know yeah and I’ve been going down this path of like everything absurd me at a certain point and learning to love that stuff instead of being regretful or anger or angry towards it even my addictions I’ve learned to actually love and embrace them because at the time I didn’t know any different and I had to turn to them to cope and I’ve learned to accept that and show love and compassion for those things instead of you know what a lot of people generally do is just beat themselves up over those things so yeah yeah I have a lot of love and compassion for those guys because yeah a lot of you know those guys were there when I did need to to deal with some stuff and but yeah there’s just definitely some downs downsides yeah to it you know I wasn’t like a complete [ __ ] bag no but um you wouldn’t be here if you were no we’re in my men’s group yeah yeah true yeah and so you have this relationship thing happen you know and and so I i guess let’s ask the question what was the catalyst that really kicked off your interest in personal growth because for a number of years you’d like you were just going along doing the basic sports bro thing and some guys most guys will go their whole life that without looking at themselves and hey why am I like this why am I choosing to take these actions you know what is about my past that makes me think about things in this way all of a sudden you went from being like on a track that most guys follow which is like avoid my feelings at all costs and not look at myself um critically to all of a sudden hey I’m interested in this stuff now what caused that change well that don’t forget that was years ago too that was ten years ago probably where I went through that initial change which was it was a big financial issue that I had because of the sports gambling because I was living well outside of my means and living a lifestyle that I couldn’t afford that all these financial poor financial decisions and the sports gambling caught up with me and that was around 2010 2011 and then I was like okay I need to to work on this stuff and I started going down the path of spirituality reading Eckhart Tolle his books reading a lot of marketing stuff and at that time that’s when you were helping me um with the internet marketing and getting educated and teaching myself about that stuff because I knew that I had to I knew there was a lifestyle out there for me that was far better than working a typical nine to five so that’s when it started and I was going along pretty well up until probably 2013 14 when you know that’s when I decided to sort of rest on everything and you know like stop going down that path I felt like okay I’ve gotten out of this hole of this financial struggle I paid off my debts um I’m good exactly started my business and I was like yeah and I knew that I was resting on my laurels and I rejoined the golf club and I got back in and business was going great and I was traveling and it wasn’t focused on growing my business much at all I was more of like you know like yeah this is my reward for all this hard work and these two or three years of doing that but then yeah things just sort of plateau and even in some ways went declining because I wasn’t actually still working on those main issues which were the addictions and getting into why I was turning to those addictions but then it came back obviously after the end of this relationship about a little over two years ago now and it started with my health my physical health I’d always been ashamed of my body you know I wasn’t necessarily overweight but I was definitely uncomfortable with my weight and I’d always wanted to lose weight and the first thing you had a dad bod you had a dad bod similar to what I got right now yeah pretty much yeah like not thick in the arms or legs or anything but definitely got you know up in the man boobs not not happy with myself and that was more of a representation overall I’ve not had being happy with myself not cleaning up my diet not exercising enough not being committed deeply to improving my overall physical and mental health so I joined orange theory in October 2019 I think it was like October 10th that’s like that’s like a workout gym for those that aren’t in Vancouver yeah it’s it’s like well it’s all over North America is it I don’t I don’t even know yeah I mean it’s your you know high intensity workout class and at the time they’d have it broken down into three segments don’t need to get into the details but it was definitely a huge catalyst for me to make that first push which was like okay I want to feel better about myself and I’ve been feeling shitty about myself because of this appearance and I need to lose weight and for a lot of different reasons not only my health my long-term health but also too just feeling better mentally about it about myself so that was a the first big catalyst and then over the course of the year in a bit at the end of 2020 I set my goal I was at the time when I joined orange theory about 200. I set a goal at the end of 2020 to lose 30 pounds and get down to 170 and I got down to 170 and I was like okay [ __ ] that’s awesome yeah I was so proud of myself to not only commit to exercise but also my diet and cleaning up my diet um so that was yeah the biggest point but it was the relationship ending because of my again three-headed monster gambling came up alcohol not so much but you know porn came up and struggled sexually with with her and intimacy were all there and obviously being ashamed of those things not admitting them was coming out you know she was having to pry the stuff out of me which was really unfortunate but deep down I was just I didn’t love myself and I was ashamed of myself and I wasn’t embracing my my imperfections and I wasn’t changing and I wasn’t making the the right moves yeah so I i will come back up to the relationship stuff and intimacy stuff here shortly but to touch on one thing so so you’re this is why I love your story Jordan it’s so relatable to most men including myself right you’re not feeling great about your body which is like a sign that you’re not feeling great about yourself in general probably but you you come at it from a very uh logical way which is I’m gonna start working out right how did you go from that step to then oh wait there’s more behind the scenes here I probably have some emotional things to address like my self-worth or whatever like because a lot of people still a lot of guys stop there they’re like I’m gonna go to the gym I’m gonna get fit and then it’s fine and then you know but nothing really changes even if they do get fit they still feel crummy yeah yeah and I think it was going back to just entering into that relationship I knew deep down that yeah I didn’t want to be watching porn I had a friend we’d always try to do like a no porn challenge for you know a few months and wiping our Instagram accounts clean of the bikini slash porn models basically and doing that but not having much success and always turning back to it um but yeah I think it was like okay I’ve got this part I’m proud of myself you know what’s the next thing I need to level up you know okay well I need to dig into these addictions and I need to figure out why I’m turning to them because I don’t want to be turning to them anymore they’ve caused me to get to this point where I’m so emotionally numb that I can’t even have love for myself or another person so the next one was alcohol yeah so why weren’t these things allowing you to ex feel love for another person or express love for another person why were they affecting you in that way because a lot of guys think oh these are just normal things that everybody does and and um you know no big deal uh you know I’m doing fine most of us are functioning addicts you know sure I set myself included with with food with porn in the past with uh seeking sex and validation from women dating apps you know but I’m functioning so not a big deal right but why why was it how why was it affecting you how was it I think the numbing just the numbing down was a big part of that but also too not feeling good internally about losing you know five thousand dollars in a month on gambling or that’ll do it yeah like and trying to hide that too like to keeping that in like bottling that up you know the the body keeps your traumas in and not releasing that and not expressing that and holding the secret like terrible terrible feelings um towards oneself and yeah definitely the numbing but just always turning to those things instead of sitting with things and thinking about them and always distracting you know whether it’s even TV and Netflix and distracting that way as well and just trying to avoid everything that’s supposed to be coming out but like no I don’t want to I don’t want to feel this I don’t want to feel this yeah and then and then that translates into your personal relationships and not just how you feel about yourself but also like you then you’re pushing that all down it’s hard to hard to express what you’re feeling with your partner how to express what you’re feeling with friends all that stuff yeah I mean I’ve had to learn a lot about what love actually is and it’s not just saying I love you and it’s not just being there for that person but it’s also like loving yourself and being truthful and honest and wanting to grow together and you know and trying to change yourself for the better so that the relationship can change as well totally but for me there was just a lack of self-love towards myself that I couldn’t feel that person’s love like I put this [ __ ] piece of armor around my heart through all these the traumas of losing my brother and my dad and through then numbing myself down anymore I just didn’t want to feel and I remember even at some points whenever I did feel anxiety about dating women whether it was my last relationship or a few others and having a lot of excitement towards these women I you know I i remember actually having some anxiety and then like turning to alcohol to like curb that whether it was on a date with them or whether it was like you know you you have all these butterflies and you’re not quite sure where they are and like oh I’ll have it like i’d go to the go to the restaurant or a pub and have like three or four beers are like no can’t feel that totally it wasn’t you know it wasn’t that I just it was I was thinking about those things it was just a natural reflection to not feel and to be like whoa this is I don’t like this you know the uncomfortableness of those feelings for me and that discomfort made me turn to something that made me feel comfortable whether it was drinking whether it was porn or whether it was a sports bet and do you think that that contributed to the depression quite a bit because my understanding of the feelings is that if you numb one you numb them all so I’ve noticed that the more that I get into like the other side of the feelings if I get in if I let myself feel the uncomfortable things the sadness about myself the anxiety that I’m feeling about work the frustration of my partner at certain times then I’ll I’ll notice the if I let myself feel those things I’ll notice the birds in the trees I’ll laugh more fully right I’ll notice myself skipping down the street a bit versus like if I push those things down then it will end up um doing the opposite I just can’t see any of that stuff and life’s just kind of dull how well yeah what’s your experience with that yeah for sure it’s a lot of the same and that like you know you’re pushing the stuff to feel to not feel anything therefore not see anything and try to keep things on sort of like that even keel where like you say you don’t notice and appreciate those little tiny things like the sun poking through the trees and creating that beautiful sort of holy glow you know and having that stuff and and also to tying this in like the ability to get out in nature and appreciate nature like you’re just talking about birds chirping you know being grateful for those things so uh can be an important step to yeah opening that up again and and not feeling so flatlined or just maybe not excited about much you know and like actually getting excited about those little tiny things such a huge huge component I believe to what my overall mental well-being has been or getting outside in nature or just having little bits of appreciation for yeah these things that get yeah forgotten I think by a lot of people in society because we’re just constantly trying to like distract distract distract distract and always keep ourselves busy yeah I mean everybody seems to be loved social media for the most part and um to me after just listening to so many guys in men’s groups it just seems like it’s just another one of those distraction tools that our society is pushing along with movies and in sports and entertain anything entertainment that’s like well no this serves a purpose yeah it’s great but like if you’re using it to you know distract yourself from your own internal experience then it’s not great because that’s going to have effects on your life right no exactly and I believe those things are all in place for that reason because once we actually start to sit and think more about ourselves and our overall well-being and this planet you know then I do believe we’re gonna have some different thoughts and feelings towards things like actually how healthy is Netflix to a society how healthy is Facebook and Instagram to our society um for me it’s not healthy at all for you it’s not healthy at all so I assume that applies to the guys listening to no and I mean you know I’ve learned to use Instagram in a slightly different way I use it for inspiration for spirituality or I use it for messaging I’ve got a few friends it’s like the only voice messaging you know method we can use and I’m trying to use it in those ways rather than like oh you know my adhd brain is like sitting there and I’m like got a couple minutes it’s like reach for the phone or go to my you know computer and it’s amazing how programmed I have into my typing fac for Facebook like into like it’s just this automatic habit and it’s messed up and I’m like god or so it’s just trying to break those habits and instead of turning to those things just being patient and still and sitting there just even for a minute and saying okay why am I choosing to go to that thing oh I need some sort of gratification I need something to make myself feel better and instead of doing that yeah just sitting there with those thoughts okay why you know why do I need that gratification and I’m okay I’m as I am I’m whole as I am so trying to do that as much as possible instead of turning to those things yeah I i love that moment you and I had a few weeks ago where you’re like hey [ __ ] face why aren’t you following me on Instagram and I was like and but you were asking that because you were going through your followers through to remove people right to like to curate your list and I responded well hey man I only I don’t I only use it for memes like funny stuff and surf accounts and so we both realized that we were both you know curating our list and we had a good laugh about it um and uh and since doing that I’ve had a lot more anxiety and I felt a lot better about myself versus seeing all the things that I can’t have oh wow there’s people on boats right now with babes and champagne [ __ ] my life sucks all right doing that I bet for you that like the mini the van builders you know following all those van builder accounts and seeing before and afters and going like oh that’s what I want with my van and not being there that yeah I know and if I even just following friends I even not even even not these like Instagram influencers that are projecting that they always live the best life even seeing my that my friends are on a trip or somewhere cool or they’ve accomplished something you know just sometimes it ends up me by my default doesn’t feel oh you know yeah that’s evidence that I’m not doing good enough you know and that’s even interesting I try I’m trying to post a lot more about my issues or about my things that I struggle with as like hey this is you know actually who I am because for the longest time my Instagram would only be again you know like any sort of media outlet you control the messaging and you’re putting out only usually a positive message about your life and a lot of people even myself included probably don’t post those negative things because well nobody wants to go on this to see my negative [ __ ] and this is all and it’s like well actually that’s just part of life like how is that any different from us just having a one-on-one conversation and talking about your [ __ ] and things that you need to get over like I think you know some people are just not comfortable with airing that out there but I found that when I’ve done that I did a post earlier in the year just talking about my struggles with addiction and and how I wanted to be living a dream where I’d be producing music and chasing that dream of that and you know I got a lot of positive feedback and even people reaching out to me to wanting to talk about their [ __ ] their issues and I was like wow that’s awesome you know and every time I and I think even in that post I said like you know if you don’t get anything out of this at least at the very most I hope that you learn more a little about me and my struggles and who I actually am as a person and also too maybe you know you take an internal look at yourself and go yeah actually I am struggling with this and it’s okay to admit that and you know we don’t have to always be presenting this magical fairy image of who we are on social media yeah and you learned something that you we’ve experienced in our men’s group and that is that people can usually relate and they have their own stuff going on or they’ve been through something similar in the past you know so there isn’t a lot of harm in sharing and I know that you’re in your past you were quite afraid to share this stuff right there’s like a lot of fear talked about that quickly deep well it’s just deep rooted shame and embarrassment about these things even though you know for example porn pretty much you know I’m not going to state a number but I would imagine the majority of guys watch porn and get themselves 58 yeah but they don’t talk about it it’s like this you know hidden thing where you’ve got your hoodie on and you’re you know [ __ ] lights off there’s this comedian Hannibal Burus has got a great skit about that actually but we all keep it super private some guys are open they even talk about like the porn stars that they get themselves off to and they share [ __ ] and it’s just like that’s a whole another level of like really uncomfortableness for me but again all doing it and not anyone accepting it you know and the biggest thing that I’ve found with it is it’s frustration because you know it is so socially acceptable but not talked about yet nobody actually talks about the potential negative impacts of watching porn from the mentality of the brain and traumatizing the brain so much over the years and then you know not even open up another can of worms but sex trafficking within porn industry and the amount of rape and abuse and even death there’s some [ __ ] up [ __ ] out there but yeah not enough guys talking about it and maybe saying yeah like you know what I’m actually struggling in bed and sitting down having a conversation and going well maybe actually porn has been affecting you and how you you know even get an erection or how you even get off inside your partner you know I just chuckle at ed commercials it’s like you know take this pill and everything will go away and it’s just like well maybe we should actually look at the root cause of this and for a lot of guys the root cause is because they’ve been watching porn for 15 20 years and their brains been so traumatized and adjusted to getting themselves off to pixels and looking at something rather than the sensation of their partner so yeah as a guy as a guy with high testosterone high testosterone myself like I’ve had tested and it’s high and I’ve got a really hairy back and so I know I’m known that high on the t category I never had an issue with it so I could watch porn didn’t seem to affect my sex drive but having heard your story and like the thousands of guys in men’s group like it comes up every week hearing how porn has affected their sex lives especially as of now that I’m getting older I’m like oh wow I gotta take that seriously you know yeah and I think even the other side of porn is that like if you’re with somebody and you’re watching porn to get yourself off with to me that’s cheating you are you are going to something else someone else generally a woman or whatever you’re into you’re going to something else to get yourself off to achieve you know that full masturbation and that to me is cheating it’s a visual way of cheating you know it’s I personally don’t think it’s healthy and I know I was doing that in my relationship my last relationship and yeah I knew it was not good but I was just like I you know if I [ __ ] up or I said something bad or I you know damaged the relationship anyway I just didn’t want to feel that so I’d go get myself off to porn to make myself feel better it was just this disgusting cyclical cycle of doing something bad not feeling good about it not sitting with those feelings not figuring out how to change it but like turning to something to make me feel better which was actually in essence hurting the relationship even more and hurting myself more yeah big time I’ve never thought of that as cheating because I know that I a lot of people engage in fantasy even if they’re completely fulfilled sexually in a relationship but I do like the hard line you’re drawing there with yourself and also um just acknowledging that it’s not healthy we can’t agree upon again that’s my my belief that that is great it’s a form of cheating even though like I actually went to a sex counselor and she’s just like well you know it’s okay to if you’re walking down the street and even though you’re in a relationship you see somebody and you might draw the fantasy of being with that person I’m like okay that’s one thing but actually like pulling your you know dick out getting yourself off to this piece of porn that was like okay that that to me is not healthy so I mean that’s my opinion I’m sure a lot of guys don’t agree with it but you know I think as long as we no and I think as long as they’re actually internalizing and actually going well you know yeah I do have issues with sexuality or intimacy and I have been watching porn to at least question the tie and you know I get frustrated going on a lot of these sites and seeing like oh no it’s okay it’s acceptable well that’s acceptable but like you know deep down honestly look at yourself look at your sexual relationships um in the past present and and yeah if there is nothing going on then obviously it’s not an issue with you but I know for a lot of guys it is an issue and I knew I just sort of was like man not a big deal it’s okay maybe yeah maybe for some guy it’s not an issue but man anytime a guy says that I raised an eyebrow and then sure enough like you know three to six months later there’s some relationship problem that’s partly related to that that pops up in that guy’s life so I’ve seen enough of those stories now where whenever some guy says oh no porn’s good for me I believe it’s good why not you know personal preference I’m always like hmm really yeah yeah skeptic is skepticism for sure but yeah so stepping back so so so coming back a step so you see you’re this basic bro golfer you know going for beers with the boy is not a very supportive social circle you decide you got to make a change due to financial reasons due to the addictions affecting your relationship what were some of the early resources you checked out to start to make those changes besides the gym you know because uh and I know you’re into some you’re you’re kind of in the deep end of this stuff like I am now but what were some of those early first steps you took books podcasts counselors you know yeah counselor was the one you know just towards the end of my relationship I was going to see a sex counselor um then I was going to see a counselor after the relationship ended during the end of the relationship she was like you know you should go join a men’s group and she had found a couple guys on Facebook locally or doing men’s groups but I got weirded out by one of them and some of the content that he was pushing out and I never I never did go and meet them and then yeah after the relationship ended you know I started to go into this okay I started to go see a counselor that was helpful um turned to a couple books on porn and love and I can’t remember what one of them was called it was a really good book I’ll try to remember it but any general personal development stuff like any any general books or podcasts or anything of that nature no I i had already done enough of that yeah work and content I could pull and tap into it again um because I remember out of that getting out of that relationship it was like I talked to two of my closest friends and I said listen guys like I need to get off porn and I need to look at it as completely evil and it’s wrecked a lot of my not only this past relationship but I’ve had struggles with other women sexually and I do believe that it’s due to you know having watched porn for [ __ ] 25 years pretty yeah a lifetime maybe even more lifetime of porn so the focus was on getting rid of the porn out of my life and that was the main focus and then that’s right around the time when you were starting up men’s group and my first meeting I think you were just like wow that was awesome I remember going in there and being like guys I’ve struggled with a porn addiction it is a number one priority that I get off of this and I stop it it’s done so much damage to my life and me personally that I just don’t want to do it anymore and that was that was a big part of that you know getting over that shame and even you know a conversation a month or two after breaking up with my ex I went to a sexaholics anonymous meeting it wasn’t gonna work out for me because there wasn’t really much specifically with porn addiction um and porn traumatization but I remember she said something well how did it feel and I go well you know what it actually felt really good to go into a space not knowing anybody and admitting that issue that I had and that struggle that I had and then even further more I just came across this woman last year earlier this year she has this book and you know I haven’t read the book yet but the saying is just so true and it’s like the truth heals that’s the name of her book and I was just like yeah that was at play there like the truth that I’ve struggled with this thing for so long and it’s hurt me in a lot of ways it started to heal me I started to be okay with admitting it and that’s been a big part of anybody that I’m meeting especially who is focused on personal development personal growth and bettering themselves I’m okay to open up about them about everything like I need to be an open book because my ex what said like you didn’t realize it but like the more and more you admitted your faults and your issues and your struggles the more and more I loved you I just wanted you to be honest with yourself and me but I was like presenting this image that I was so much better than I was instead of admitting a lot of these struggles and and being okay with them but also at the same time wanting to move past them to be better to release the shackles of those struggles yeah so you’re presenting this image again stepping back in the timeline a little bit you’re presenting this image everything’s fine was it scary when you started to wade into this stuff you know 10 years ago or or you know three years ago with this relationship like well tell me about that fear yeah I can even remember having a conversation with her towards the end and she’s just like well like we knew what I needed to do I needed to go see counselors I needed to you know I was seeing a gambling addiction counselor too and I did stop for about six months but once the relationship was ending I was just like well I felt like so shitty that I turned back to that sports gambit addiction to make myself feel good again and but we had a conversation about she’s like what do you think is going to happen I’m like well I want to change but like you know deep down I have this fear that I won’t and I didn’t know why I said that but I can sense why I said it and that was because like I was just so afraid of getting uncomfortable and getting into my feelings and unfortunately the relationship it seemed like it had to end for me to actually like grasp like what the what was going on and what I needed to work on to get better because you know I had seen her hurt and I felt terrible that I was the main culprit of seeing her hurt but you know and also too not feeling that hurt to myself and and not feeling sad about the fact that I had a amazing opportunity to be with a great partner for a very long time as long as I was willing to admit these things and overcome them so yeah it was like okay yeah like I’m I’m I’m I’m afraid of this uncomfortable change because my life had been so programmed into not knowing at the time obviously but like any sort of discomfort boredom depression anxiety it was like okay what can I do to do alcohol gambling or porn you know those three things that was the biggest habit you had of all even more than porn and it’s avoiding uncomfortable feelings yeah I mean at the end of the day that’s definitely what it was yeah and then not sitting there and being okay with it and it happened multiple times in that relationship where something had gone wrong I felt terrible and I just turned to those three things to make myself feel good instead of actually just sitting there and feeling shitty and like wow okay yeah I don’t like this feeling anymore I need to stop getting into these situations and I need to stop turning to these things and instead turn to some form of healing yeah so I have a good friend who’s going through he’s at the beginning of this next stage of his journey like like yours Jordan his is coming in stages and he said to me two nights ago when he was opening up but a little bit he said oh man I don’t know if I want to get into this stuff I don’t know if I can get into stuff right now because it might it might be too overwhelming I don’t want to open that can of worms you know did you feel anything like that oh yeah for sure um but I continuously you know you’re talking about podcasts so I think after the men’s group stuff I started to get into some podcasts more based around fear and I’m being uncomfortable and being okay with uncomfortable but how to deal with those things and and that was a huge part of okay yeah this is going to be kind of shitty for a while um and it wasn’t that bad but it was always like this okay I know on the other side of this is a beautiful life and a more fulfilling life and a more purposeful life and a more amazing life so it was always like okay that’s it like this is it this is this is the breaking point for me I need to to push through and I need to make these changes because I know what’s on the other side is far better than what’s been existing yeah that’s so great you’re able to get that leverage over that fear of feeling too much you’re like [ __ ] it I don’t care I had a similar point whereas like I don’t care if I feel shitty for like a year I’m gonna get past this [ __ ] yeah like I can’t things have gotten so bad for me that the uncomfortable feelings were no longer the the biggest fear there and even like on that level in the most simplistic term is you know I remember like earlier this year I’ve been running a lot and I remember like I’d have a lot of pain in my leg but I would never stretch or I’d never roll on a foam roll or anything like that to roll it out and then my roommate is talking to me and she was talking about like yeah like you know you actually like gotta dig into the pain to get better and I was just like god that’s just such a simile for like me and life in general like life in general yeah not wanting to feel pain but knowing that to get into that pain and to release it you’re gonna have to feel shitty to feel better and it was like oh that’s such a simplistic thing so I’ve tried to do as much as I can with like just that release of the physical pain and being okay with it and getting into it for a couple minutes to know that on the other side of it is there’s this pain-free life same thing with the emotional and spiritual and physical or yes emotional emotional and spiritual pains that we’ve been holding on to you know digging into them extracting them why they’re there when they were there and then you know releasing them is going to be so much better I can relate to that a lot because I thought for example with my nagging low self-worth issues like not feeling very good about myself that was like causing a lot of the behaviors I didn’t like first people pleasing you know being a nice guy no boundaries with people pursuing sex and validation uh a whole whole range of things addictions and stuff and at the center that was my self-worth and when I got into that it was like just so scary and intense but I realized that there’s no amount of things I could do to love myself more if that was the default way that I was feeling about myself was still in my body and so I i tried for almost a decade to like love up on myself like do affirmations or read these books or write it down or have things on my wall that show how much I love myself and how great my life is do a list of all the things I’d be proud of and it never just it never worked you know and it wasn’t until I went the opposite route and said maybe maybe what if I go and hang out with this feeling I have my gut that’s like not very happy with myself what what if I do that and then that and that then applied to the momentum situations hey I feel like pulling up porn right now what if I just go step away and sit with those feelings instead and that has been the most healing um transformative thing I’ve I’ve seen in myself and also in guys in men’s group that they’re in it for long enough they always get to the same place which is like anything that any bad habit they want to eradicate it’s like the answer is always just step away and feel into those feelings and like become your own parents and like comfort those feelings yeah 100 so have you found something similar that was a bit of ramble but it seems sounds like you have a similar practice now um no I mean it’s pretty similar I I’ve I’ve still at times I’m avoiding those things um me too for me the biggest one is when I do dive into um you know a little micro dose of mushrooms um you know I’ve done a few plant medicine ceremonies and journeys but just even taking a little bit of mushrooms you know I start to sense physically in my body where I’m tired or where I’m holding some pain or you know some emotional pain will seep out I remember even a couple months ago I’ve got these three photos of my dad on my wall and I remember just having mushrooms and actually taking the time to sit down and be with myself and looking over at those photos and crying just about how much I missed my father but also how much you know I would have loved to have a relationship at this time in my life now where I am going through this change and he’d be so proud of me and it was just like oh it sucked so but I I’m I’m not perfect and I’m still struggling at times we’ve had conversations where I’m you know not in those moments actually sitting with those feelings and wanting to numb out to them and not feel them when I do yeah I can I can get into them a little bit more and I’m a lot better at not taking them and not taking them at face value and running with them and running into a negative way you know and just at least sitting there with them a little while it gives me some sense of like okay what is this feeling what is it from um but for me a lot of it is always like you’re just you externally escape into a future with that thought and project what could happen what might happen that to me is a waste and I’ve learned to thankfully try to be a lot more present and deal with things as they come but yeah I i need to get better at it I know it’s a struggle and I’m just even when you were going on your your your whatever you called it a rant or a ramble the um Terra Brock rain method and it’s like recognize accept investigate and it’s like nurture something like that yeah so anytime a thought comes up that’s maybe negative it’s like you actually sitting there okay recognize it accept it investigate it further and then again I don’t know what the end to stand for nurture probably nurture it yeah like something like that like let it fast for a little bit let it sit but give it some thought you know like okay oh yeah you know what I’m struggling with this you know feeling of being um whatever not whole or needing somebody else to tell me that I’m better than I am or you know things like that but then okay going through that process what is it why oh okay and then you know think about a little bit further and you might find something that it’s like oh it actually had something to do with this 15 years ago or five days ago um but it’s been yeah quite quite interesting and even just this recent book that I’ve been on the the four agreements um with don Miguel Ruiz you know like the four agreements um god I’m gonna be tested here on this yeah yeah you don’t have to list them that’s nice but it’s like be impeccable to your word don’t take things personally don’t make assumptions um the last one always do your best but like just recently I’ve had a couple incidents pop up that I would normally take so much offense to and you know I won’t even think a little bit more about them and like why is that person triggered based on something I said now I’m doing that I’m not taking offense to it I’m actually sitting there going okay actually normally I would feel and I do feel a little bit like uh like this is a personal attack on me but it’s like well no actually wait a second you know like it’s not my fault that this person’s triggered by something I said so being able to just even sit with that thought and normally where I would say like taking things personally and you sort of alluded to it with the no more mr nice guy you know always looking to external things to validate you as a human and you know and then when it’s the other way around you’re like you take it so personally right oh yeah so that book’s taught me a lot in that sense or even just yes setting up boundaries it’s a pretty popular book so now that you’re like um [Music] yeah and and it’s really cool to hear just quickly it’s really cool to hear how how you’re continuing to struggle with that being present with those feelings because I don’t know man where that is I don’t know anybody has completely crossed that bridge you know I don’t think I don’t know if we ever do I think the default of the brain is to try to keep us away from pain maybe monks up out in monasteries that are meditating all day can get there but you know um and so if you do if you’re listening to this and you’re feeling like uh you know oh man I just I’m struggling to get there too you know it’s it’s just normal normal path it’s like trying to get marginal marginal improvements you know oh yeah and I mean even last night in one of the men’s scripts that I facilitated meditation came up and one of the guys who’s been doing it for about a year he was talking to a guy who’s just taking it up and he’s just like hey like the word practice is there for that purpose that it’s a practice and that you know you you know every day if you can get a little bit better and practice at it you know and not jump to like the far end of you know I’m gonna be able to meditate for 20 minutes and sit still and have no crazy thoughts probably in my head while that’s nice and if I don’t I’m a [ __ ] up if I don’t exactly and like that’s why I love there’s been so much more coming out about meditation and just even overall self-worth and and being okay with like okay yeah I’ve got some I’ve got some issues or I got some struggles or I want to be here it’s like no that you know be patient with this stuff and set these things in place and don’t just you know after a couple weeks throw them throw them out the window because they’re not having an effect um and that’s you know been a typical thing for me too is like if I don’t see result I didn’t see results in the past fairly soon I would just that’s it this is done this doesn’t work this is all fluff this is all [ __ ] yeah so having gone from like being somebody who’s like not looking at myself I’m not being introspective I’m not learning through myself and my own behaviors and and adversities and stuff to now being somebody who’s on a very um strong path of self-improvement and self-actualization introspection like what what’s that journey been like for you actually actually actually I guess the first question would be actually yeah let’s talk about the journey first yeah oh man like I just chuckled because it’s been amazing it’s been so beautiful in a lot of ways and I remember even just earlier this spring I i met a guy at a sound healing um and we just caught up we we kept in touch a little bit over the summer we just caught up a couple weeks ago and we were just like so in awe about like how far we had come in such a short period of time just for me especially like trying to live to what my higher purpose wants me to which I have in my mind I’m not going to disclose of what it is but like and then actually doing these things to fulfill it then opens up this massive universe and these opportunities that things just manifest into my life and it’s just it’s been such an incredible journey to be able to just every little bit every little person who comes in my life now they’re just amazing and I’m so thankful for it I’m so thankful that I’ve gone down this path because I said it a little while ago but like on the other side of the struggles and the issues whatever it is there’s always going to be something amazing and beautiful and that’s why I was chuckling because just even this last year of what’s happened and who I’ve connected with and who is in my life now starts from like literally like one thing and it’s opened up this floodgate amazing like I’ve got so many stories of connection of people just in my small little city of 350 000 people that I just like I laugh and I’m so thankful for the journey and for the journey to continue because like I said it’s just been so beautiful and amazing of the people that I’ve connected with and what I’ve been able to share what have people been able to share with me and what that has done for my healing and what it’s done for daily their healing and everything is just so positive yeah and the benefits are clear for me and this is what I was gonna ask you before but I’m happy we talked about the journey first what have been the benefits because to me it seems like all of a sudden you’re pursuing your passion that you felt stuck around for a long time with music you’re connecting with people more deeply you’re you’re in you’re feeling better today and enjoying more of the experience of life which is the little interactions the birds and the trees all these kinds of things yeah what else I think the biggest one is not being hard on myself like yeah if anybody’s out there listening and wants to really look do yourself a favor and look up this guy named peter crone peter crone I think is one of the most beautiful human beings and he’s been on a couple of Aubrey Marcus’s podcast and he was a huge impact on me loving myself more and being okay with my issues and my faults but also too to have that motivation to move forward but that is definitely one of the biggest things for me is no more beating myself up internally because I’m turning to that addiction or you know I [ __ ] up that relationship or I’m just not that motivated with work right now or I’m scared of this that’s been a huge one the other one is I just said it fear like I don’t have as many fears as I used to because I’m not afraid of what people think of me I’m not afraid of success anymore I’m not afraid of failure anymore um if you come and operate from this place of like yeah internal like happiness and achieving your higher purpose like I said you just everything sort of opens up in the universe to me anyways has magically manifested so many of these great experiences and great people coming into my life and I’m just like that’s motivation to keep going further and keep continuing on this path of this and just even in this last three weeks two weeks two weeks since I know it came up again that I started gambling again but since I’ve quit so many amazing things have had happened and I’m like okay this I knew this deep down was gonna be what would happen like if I finally surrendered to the dragon not slayed it surrendered to it laid down laid my sword down said this is a fight I’m no longer gonna win I knew that something great would happen because that would be sort of the full release because I knew that I wasn’t living to my higher purpose with this gambling addiction but I knew as it went away it would just things would open up even further because again living to my higher self my higher purpose opened that up and it’s been amazing the last two weeks about how much positivity has flowed into my life and I’m like okay yeah like I should have done that years ago obviously not beating myself up having regrets about it but it’s just like this sort of litmus test has been amazing and I’m like okay let’s just keep rolling with this and see what else happens over the next year or two right yeah I i can relate to that so much man I’m so proud of you for this journey like that the transformation I’ve seen you as crazy and and in myself I noticed the same thing as I continue to get into this pain whenever I run into it it’s like and let that go it’s like uh and continue to work on myself life just gets easier things feel lighter you know more fun yeah in the game and I’m proud of you too I mean I know you’ve struggled with some other stuff that you haven’t talked about too with your health but yeah it’s like also too it’s almost like this like I’m like it was like friday and like it just seemed like collectively everybody around me was also going through this transformational change and they were improving and they were happy with where they were in their life and I was like I was over sensed with some some tears but tears of joy that like everything around me was flourishing even though generally at this time of year in British Columbia where it’s November and like days are getting shorter I would always go in a depressive state like oh it’s dark the leaves are falling off the trees everything’s dying now I just see nothing but light yeah and happiness and it’s like it’s crazy how that shift has happened just only over the last few years yeah I noticed that in the last few years too people grumbled about the weather and stuff and I’m like really I didn’t even didn’t even notice like this yeah I mean I know it’s interesting though you’re like you love to ski I never loved to ski like winter time for me was always like basketball indoors and you know I did like playing golf in the rain but never much in the winter but I just anytime I go like I actually I love hiking in the winter only because past are less busier but everything is just so flourishing with life water flowing through streams rivers there’s waterfalls um mist and fog oh moss moss is flourishing and you can hear it breathing yes the trees don’t have leaves but they’re just collecting all the water for when they need it in the summer and I’m just like oh man this is so beautiful like I never would have thought that five ten years ago uh speaking of five ten years ago did you ever think you’d could be going to sound healings or using words like conscious or evolved or floaty [ __ ] like that no no and I think you know it’s it’s common nature to sort of laugh at the hippie sort of lifestyle but you know the more and more I’m embracing it because it works for me because I think deep down that’s maybe who I was you know and maybe this golfer facade you know you call whatever it is the the typical bro um wasn’t right basically bro it wasn’t necessarily me you know maybe deep down because I do even remember like I used to love playing golf as a kid on my own because I was out in nature I was alone and it was very spiritual for me just even focusing on my footsteps and feeling the earth and walking and hearing the birds listening to the leaves blowing the wind the rain hitting the ground whatever it was that was such a huge part of it so I think it’s like almost really what’s happening is that I’m returning to that and it’s growing even exponentially because I am interested a lot more in that spiritual lifestyle and beliefs about you know the universe and ourselves too personally you know our internal our power as as humans and yeah it’s just been a really unreal journey and funny to think about that yeah a couple years ago I would have just sort of chuckled at the stuff like what about the moon cycle that that might have an effect on me sound healing you’re going to lay down and somebody’s going to hit a gong and what the 432 heart hurts hits my my throat and heart chakra or even like dude like even just thinking about I think it’s a relevant thing I remember being in a platinum medicine ceremony we talked about it but I had issues with my throat being very tight but one thing that I’ve discovered is that if you’re not speaking up about some truths or you’re holding stuff in your throat gets very tight your whole your heart or your throat chakra does I remember going to that planet plant medicine ceremony and having an intention to open up my heart and that was what they were saying was like well you have a blockage because you’re not feeling from here and going up to your brain you’re thinking first and hoping that that goes to your heart that’s the wrong way to do it but what’s the issue is that you know you’ve got some throat issues so I released those things by literally pressing my atoms apple into my chest I don’t know why I did that it was just but it’s opened me up and my throat is a lot less tight and now I’m able to now speak up about things that I wasn’t without that closing on yet because I know a lot of guys talk about that experience it’s like they go to speak and it’s like think about like I mean you know I don’t want to talk about but somebody else I know right now close to me is going through a divorce and what came up as a typical thing in the no more mr nice guy is speaking up to your partner about things that you maybe you know you haven’t voiced whether it’s things that you want to do or things that you know you maybe you’re wanting to discuss whatever it is you keep those things closed in what this thing just gets tight and that’s not a recipe for success and to experience the feelings again yeah and so you know beyond the internal stuff and you know getting into kooky floaty stuff like uh sound healings and stuff and again guys if you’re listening to this and you’re like oh well I’m not gonna do stuff like that I didn’t think I was gonna get into stuff like that Jordan didn’t think he was gonna get stuff like that and really at the end of the day like try to put the the words that might be you might find polarizing aside and just see these things as tools that are like that seem to work and for me like sound healings are great I just love I just love laying there and hearing all these different kinds of sounds these soft warm sounds did it heal me I don’t know if it did I don’t know if you know anything but it was a useful tool for me to get through a tough time so you know why judge that stuff keep an open mind I guess is what I’m saying yeah I think those things are little bits and parts of the equation because you do start to take an appreciation what we were talking about earlier with like birds and things like that you start to take an appreciation for like a crystal singing bowl produces this amazing sound and you’re like oh wow that is actually quite beautiful and a big part of my journey is to balance this masculine energy that I’ve had throughout my life not necessarily through me but through others and then you know with some feminine too but also keeping that balance um there and being tapped into more like I say the the feminine energy and and even on that like I’ve tried to surround myself with more women friends because that’s something we haven’t talked about but like I didn’t have female friends it was all male friends and the only female friends that would be in my life were literally girlfriends or an acquaintance of a you know be like a friend’s girlfriend but not like you know someone I just go hang out with no sexual anything like that just two people communicating I never had that but I’m starting to incorporate my or not incorporate but to surround myself with women to get a little bit more of that balance and I think one of the things that I appreciate and it was even at the plant medicine ceremony in the spring that I saw it was two women embracing and hugging and I sat there with so much envy and and just this overall sense of beauty because they held each other for like three minutes and I was like wow that is just amazing how women are so comfortable to do that with each other where the typical bro hug is like literally like hey bro and it’s like very cold and you know the guy when he wants to get out he taps you on the back like let go release I’m uncomfortable here oh man it’s classic see it’s like a typical um body language thing but it’s so comical to see that and anytime I get together with guys I try to hold it a little bit longer to see what the reaction is to push that comfort zone and secretly see what’s up but even like now some of the new the new male friends in my life you know that are very similar to me in terms of the spiritual growth they’ll hold it and there it’s a warm embrace and I’m like oh man that feels good yeah it feels really good it feels really good can act in that level yeah they’re not scared of that hug or that intimacy being misinterpreted or something you know yeah exactly I remember even going to France and visiting with the friends like the men there like they literally greet you they do the old cheek pad and I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa you know this is a little uncomfortable but you start to embrace it but that’s just their lifestyle and I think you know a bit of a balance would be good and healthy for the north American culture okay so that’s the key takeaway from this this meeting more kisses for men Jordan Caron just kisses on the cheek just literally yeah yeah well you get into friendships right and first of all i’d love to hear why you think it’s important that a guy has female friends um I think it’s always good because you get a different perspective on things and um especially a lot of what’s coming up in the world right now is a lot of I don’t want to say it’s like the male privilege but also understanding women and their struggles that have been struggles whether it’s in the workplace struggles with sexual assault allegations um things like that I think it’s always good to have that other person explain that more and you to get that perspective of what they’ve gone through what they struggle with but also just get an overall look at their you know outlook on life and and how that can help you internally get better um and heal as a human because I think women generally tend to want to heal a lot more than men because maybe they’re a little bit more wounded than men or they’re at least open to admitting they’re wounded but they do go on that and that’s why typical you would go to a sound healing and now you’ve talked about like go to yoga studios you know pick up women it’s it’s not untrue they’re the ones that are there because they’re the ones that are okay to tap into that stuff and get deeper into their heart and feel more and come up with these emotions and release them that aren’t serving them anymore so I think yeah I mean to your point like I love having female friends because even with really supportive guy friends like you and other guy friends I have um you’re not like this you’re very gentle but like with with with my guy friends even who are doing men’s work who are on this path of self-actualization or self-improvement or whatever you’re gonna call it they’ll they can support me like if I vent to them but there’s this little undertone of like okay bro get back out there and take action you know versus women they just want to be there and listen to the feeling of it and that feels nice sometimes you know for sure yeah and I think that’s a key component of what they do they sit with it more like they’ll sit with their feelings more or their talk that’s the other thing too is that women tend to talk to each other a lot more about struggles whether it’s in their relationship or whether in their workplace or whether it’s just themselves and another friend they’ll always talk about it men just glance over it like oh yeah boss is a [ __ ] you know [ __ ] them and then like okay what’s the score in this game let’s grab some wings right yeah totally totally that’s it and so and so that takes me to the last question I was going to ask about this journey of yours pretty much which was like uh specific to you is like how did you step away from those guys that were you were just having beers and having wings with like when you started to get into your I guess the better question is when you started to get into your journey of self-improvement it’s like how did what happened with the dynamic between those friends how did that feel being around them as you started to change and they were still doing the same thing and then yeah I guess I’ll start there uh really great question and I was really interested to see how that would fold out and or play out rather fold that would work didn’t wouldn’t it fold full though unfold yeah maybe I’m gonna roll yeah I was really intrigued to see how those relationships would end up because everybody you know and everything I was seeing online was just like you know as you change you realize your circle will start to change and people will fall away um the biggest one was that even uh last year as I was still not fully like committing to this change of wanting to to achieve you know greater sense of purpose and to live to my higher self I was struggling with that internal like trying to meet new people um I was still hanging out with them and I was still drinking and I was still incorporating but I knew that I wanted to okay I wanna I don’t see myself in this circle much longer um and literally it was when I stopped drinking last october that’s when I started to get invited out less the covet stuff too was everybody was locking themselves in um so that was a that was a pivotal role too but it was definitely the not drinking and then it just became i’d see these people less and less and less and it was what would it feel like when you’re out with them like what was how did it feel a lot of my identity is still golf in sports um you know even what’s interesting since I haven’t been gambling the last two weeks I haven’t given the [ __ ] about anything sports I have a favorite basketball team the golden state warriors or they’re 9-1 but even like I don’t even watch their games anymore because it’s just like I’m not watching sports was just the reason to gamble on them or gambling was the reason to watch sports I still do love them but it just it’s so time consuming and I know I need more time to do other things um but yeah I was still part that was still part of me and it’s still somewhat part of my identity and it might always be there it might not be but I am starting to be like well actually I don’t give a [ __ ] about that stuff anymore and i’d rather have a conversation with somebody about you know struggles with a relationship or just even you know what are our goals and our dreams um and what would that feel like in the moment was it just like a subtle disconnect or like feeling like there’s you can’t wait into certain topics with people or how did that feel when you’re sitting there with these friends you’ve been friends with for a while like just like the discontent yeah it wasn’t yeah disconnect I mean I can get engaged in a conversation no matter what it is um and I can get passionate about sports or politics um but yeah and I you know I just was more about as I was not drinking the invitations came out less and less and less as I gave up my membership at the golf course I wasn’t playing as much coven had restrictions on me going to the golf course and playing um so those things all were a part of it but like yeah I would be like you know even i’d try to ask a couple of the guys out one-on-one just to do something and yeah yeah okay let’s do it or plans would fall through and there would be no rescheduling on the other part and i’d be like okay this is clear that there’s not interest from your side to hang out and I’m not going to chase you down all the time so let’s just leave it as is and I’ll continue down this path and you know now more so it’s been like an extreme disconnect like a lot of these guys I’m literally only see online and not communicating with them and that’s okay you know I i don’t have any ill will I still have a lot of love for those guys um all of their parts um do I wish that they would maybe look internally a little bit more and make some changes sure but I can’t that’s not for me to say you know a lot of these guys just are sort of stuck in their way and they’re no different than I was a couple years ago when I said to my ex or when we were just kind of entering a relationship that I was afraid that of this change or that I wouldn’t change because I was just so stuck in the pattern yeah of going to those things so it hasn’t yeah it’s just worked out interestingly and you know I every once in a while I might shoot exchanges of text messages with people but it’s you know it is what it is again I don’t have any ill will towards them I still have a lot of love because they were very encouraging me and a lot of them are still encouraging me of chasing my dream musically or you know dealing with my [ __ ] you know quite a few a couple of them have been like yeah like I know I’ve got some [ __ ] that I got to deal with and I’ve brought up the plant medicine stuff I’ve brought up the men’s group and I’ve always offered an extension of support whenever they’ve needed it and a couple of reached out and I’m appreciative of that but I just realized that like you know if I do want to continuous down continuously go down this path of achieving my higher self and sense of purpose I need to continuously surround myself with these new people and even you know I’m super excited I’m running an event on my own next weekend for a group of 30 40 people who are exactly who I wanted to connect with and I’m gonna joke during the intro like I’m doing this selfishly because I’ve wanted to meet you all cause you know a friend of mine had a conversation about being connected spiritually to people and how it was a joke that I was gonna go to Bali and do that but he was like no go to salt spring and this is obviously you go to salt spring but then it was like wait a second they’re probably here so surely enough I just put this event out there and created a very spiritual healing sort of worship day and everybody like it really resonated with people so I’m like it’s going to be amazing and just even the people connecting through email I’m like wow this is awesome so it’s like in some ways my sort of coming out party into this community that I’ve wanted to connect with so for so long so it’s I’m super excited about that yeah so it sounds like you were really intentional about filling that void so like your old friends you weren’t feeling connected with them the invites stopped coming you probably had to sit boundaries with a few of them as well and then you move on to this and then you’re like well I recognize that I want to be around these kinds of people and talk about these kinds of things so you joined a men’s group which is great you started going out to events where you thought you could find those kinds of people um uh you started making this is what I observed and you started making like intentionally reaching out to certain members of our men’s group that you connected with and building friendships with them on the side and then now you’re going as far as throwing your own events specifically curated for your kinds of people yeah fantastic it’s fantastic man the intentionality and how strategic that is is there anything else you’re uh your you’ve done to sort of to get to get more more kinds of people like that around you no and I the easiest thing has literally been once you go and contact one person their circle of amazing people that are like-minded is big and all it takes is like a gathering where next thing you know you’ve got four or five people and then you connect with that person they’ve got four or five people and that’s how it’s worked like literally like I’ve just met a couple people and next thing you know that’s turned into a circle of 10 or 15 and you know you you put stuff out there and see where people are at and what you resonate with like even a friend of mine I’m calling him a friend I met him through um the guy who’s going to be doing the yoga facilitation at my event next weekend I met him through an odd you know a guy online on reddit who was reaching out like I’m an entrepreneur I want to meet new people we connected and then his friend is this yoga guy and we connected on instagram we exchanged some messages we met up a few times in the summer and then he suggested a photographer for me for some photos from my website and for my my musical stuff and I connected with his photographer and next thing you know our conversation isn’t even even about anything photography it’s about like our personal growth and journeys I’m going for a hike with him tomorrow and I’m super looking forward to it because we haven’t seen each other probably in about a month he went on a big road trip to the rockies but like I just checked in with him a couple like last week like on Friday and I just said hey man where are you like what’s going on like oh man like I had an amazing trip I’m like okay dude let’s go for a hike he’s like yeah let’s go for a hike so it’s yeah like you said be intentional with the people that you’re trying to connect with and get yourself out there that is the most important thing I know even in last night’s group that I was facilitating there was one man who’s struggling to get out of the house after a divorce and meet new people and obviously being a part of men’s group is a huge step and part of that even you know we’re meeting online but I doesn’t matter who I’m with I feel connected with them whether it’s online or not um but there’s going to be great tips to meet other people and one of the guys sort of usually doing meetups he was doing meditations group meditations with people those things are all extremely helpful but yeah be intentional and get yourself out there get over the anxiety of of meeting new people because again what’s going to be on the other side of that anxiety is going to be this beautiful experience I’m sure of and you’re going to all of a sudden surround yourself with the people that you need in your life to help you support you as you work through that healing journey yeah that’s great I love how you worded that man thanks for sharing that I mean you’ve you’ve been so intentional about it and it’s been so awesome to unfold to your benefit and it’s going to continue to pay dividends I feel like a lot of people aren’t discerning or intentional enough with their social life so it’s been cool to see you take that advice you’ve been getting in our men’s group to heart and really implementing it last question for you Jordan like you know for a guy who’s listen to this he’s he’s facing challenges in his life you know he’s considering going down this this this path of self-improvement changing overcoming this challenge improving himself any other advice you’d give him not really I mean everything I’ve kind of blabbed about is is all important I would you know always start with number one giving yourself a lot of compassion and um releasing maybe some shames that you have and being truthful with yourself you know that four agreements book you know be impeccable with your word is like be truthful to your word and be truthful to who you are don’t deceive people don’t lie to people don’t lie to yourself more importantly yeah and then you know figure out who who it is that you want to be you know have that intention of who you want to be and what you need to do to get there and more often than not that’s to to to surround yourself with like-minded people to you know take in content that’s only going to be of value and of you know of of of usefulness for you and your journey and then at the end of it yeah just put in the work I mean you know do your best do your best to get over this and accept that it’s going to be a difficult journey and it’s not going to happen overnight be patient with it it’s a practice each one of these things that you’re going to do is going to be a practice whether that’s just getting out and meeting new people you know you might struggle at the beginning of actually like starting a conversation with people but it’s going to be a practice and the more and more you put yourself out there and put yourself in those experiences you’re going to get better at it it’s going to be easier and again more often than not what’s on the other side of all this pain and all these struggles is going to be this amazing life and it’s going to be so much better not to say that everything’s gonna vanish away I mean look at me I was been sober for over a year I was sober of porn for a year I turned back to some sort of softcore porn earlier this year and the gambling crept in and but I okay yeah I it took a breaking point of you literally calling me on my birthday being like you know hey man like I’m struggling with this stuff and I’m like oh [ __ ] you know like this guy’s pouring out his heart and his struggles with something that doesn’t hurt financially and I’m like well I gotta come clean too like I can’t [ __ ] pretend that I’m putting on this facade that everything is magically great it is in a lot of ways but there’s this one thing still holding me back and here it is so that was so oh that was such a nice moment because like I was so embarrassed to admit that I’ve fallen off the wagon issues and you’re you’re like oh man it’s so nice to hear that because I’ve fallen off the meanwhile in men’s group I’m like tell I’m like singing your praises about how much you transformed and how you’re off the gambling and yeah I can imagine what a weight that must been off your shoulders just be like hey man the last couple weeks I’ve been struggling again well a lot of it was like oh yeah you know what I’m not living to my higher purpose which is being truthful and honest I’m being deceitful I mean I was honest with myself but I was doing it but it wasn’t honest of like what my end game was with it I just kept on digging myself into a deeper hole but I was being deceitful to to people and I wasn’t being true and I was like okay this this has to stop like if I’m going to actually you know be who I am and be who everybody thinks I am I need to come out and admit this and not feel shame about it it was my old programming the shame the holding keeping it in not disclosing it because I’m embarrassed about it I’m embarrassed that like you know again everybody was like oh it’s amazing to see and I’m still continuously like I haven’t fell off the falling off the wagon with alcohol or my exercise or my overall mental well-being but I just realized that this was like this last shackle and I was trying to release it and if I just released it by again surrendering not trying to slay it that’s the only way I could win that was a huge moment but I wouldn’t have got there and if you hadn’t have stepped up and admitted it and it was just like yeah I gotta be admitting of this too because this is hurting me and it’s hurting me financially it’s hurting me mentally because I’ve been putting in this a lot of great work but this last thing is like this last straw I need to get rid of it I i love the journey just feels like that it’s constantly getting these places of having those conversations with yourself where it’s like uh I’m not doing good enough with this I gotta oh I gotta I gotta grab a tool I gotta find a book I gotta find a podcast I gotta talk to your friend I gotta join a men’s group talk about this stuff just feels like that never ends but that is you know as the stale philosophers say and don’t don’t wish it were easier wish that you were better well yeah that’s an interesting one I mean you know what I mean even the whole concept of work like we’re all putting in work in this way and you know work doesn’t have to be you know the mentality if it’s going to be hard but more often than not it is going to be hard and we have to do look at it like this work that I’m putting in you know I have to consistently show up every day and get better every day you know bit by bit by bit whether that’s reading one page today two pages tomorrow just consistently going along and flowing and living to that overall vision of who you want to be at the end of it and the journey is all of it to me you know yeah okay it’d be great to get to this point in time a few years from now but like just this journey has been incredible the last six months like I said the people that I’ve met has been amazing and it’s just putting yourself out there has been a huge part of it for me yeah it’s been cool to watch you through it again man and I want to thank you for coming on today to talk about your own journey from basic bro to woke sit woke sound healing guy I’m joking I’m joking yeah I but I appreciate it Sean I love you and I um thankfully you had me on and to share my message and hope that it resonates with somebody else you know I hope anybody else out there who is struggling with a lot of the stuff I struggle with uh can some take something from this or maybe this my story resonates and it’s just like yeah okay yeah like yeah that guy what he’s been dealing with I’m dealing with the same thing or research similar like and I you know if he can do it I can do it too yeah that’s beautiful man love you too bro thanks so thanks for being here yeah thank you you.